Talk:Saracens/@comment-72.130.209.167-20170224051647/@comment-72.130.209.167-20170317041852

Completely agree with the Magyar CA. I just think they should move the +1 range tech (Recurve Bow) to the Castle Age and move their other Unique tech to Imperial (no one really builds Magyar Huzzars in castle anyways). Most people say they need a boost anyways, and that would give them a pretty nice Castle Age boost imo. CA's with +1 range in Castle would be really strong, although, I don't think they're as weak as some people think. People just don't use them right. They just go straight for Paladins and don't realize that Magyars have a FU archery line which greatly helps cover the Paladin's weakness: halbs (most Paladin civs have a weak archery line). Paladins + HCA's with Recurve Bow is a really strong combination as it does pretty decent against halbs and gives your army some range which helps in situations like if villagers try to quick wall your paladins or try to use bottlenecks against you since Paladins can only attack from the front line.

Also, I know this might be controversial but I completely disagree with Saracens needing an early start bonus. They're already fine in that area with the market bonus. Most players just don't understand it which is unfortunate because I think it's one of the best in the game. Whatever gold you lose by selling at the market (and trust me it's not that much) is MORE than made up for by having a big boost to your early game and being able to sell off gold way before anyone else does and at a way better price. Saracens can at least get 2000-3000 extra gold than most other civs just from selling off extra food and wood at the market in Imperial (which is really nice since their units are kind of gold heavy and they aren't great in trash wars). Remember that this also PREVENTS your opponent from selling gold because he needs to research guilds and has way worse prices than you.

What I really think the Saracens need (other than players recognizing how to utilize their market correctly), is a reason to use their Cavalry Archers and utilize that building attack bonus because it's not enough and is just going to waste. I think a lot of Saracen bonuses aren't strong enough and just go to waste. Zealotry? Too expensive. Transport ship bonus? Nearly/mostly useless. Madrasah? Not bad, but maybe a tad expensive on gold. Building attack bonuses for archery line? Has niche uses but not really that strong at all.

Imo, the best fixes would be to 1.) roll their CA and Foot archer bonuses together into their team bonus so that CA civs can benefit as well. 2.) Give their CA's another bonus that directly helps their combat potential or enhances their raiding, such as faster running speed, +LOS, +1 attack, etc. 3.) MAYBE, if they really needed an eco boost, give them a discount on military buildings as that would simultaneously give players incentive to try and do a transport ship attack in water maps. Right now, the investment of military buildings + all the units you need to create is a bit too much of a drain on the galley production for it to be useful. The risk of losing the water is too high. It's very hard to retake water.