Talk:Elephant Archer (Age of Empires II)/@comment-2003:DB:F3CD:492D:90EB:C11E:C049:CD9A-20190622155844/@comment-2003:DB:F3CD:492D:90EB:C11E:C049:CD9A-20190622170304

some additional remark: The bit about the cheaper camel line doesn't belong here, tbh. - its more of an issue it's own, which has been bugging me for a long time. Traditionally, camel-riders weren't found in hard fought battles (atleast not to my knowledge) like this; they were cheap (!) raiding-units, mostly, that had a way of retreating (before enemy-forces could come in to confront them) that other cavalry didn't. Camels are rather high in stature, and as such, a rider might still fight another rider on their mount, and take advantage of the fear that camels cause in horses. But to fight low-standing infantry it really isn't that much of a fit (btw.: mameluks were mostly NOT camel-units... and those are tied to Egypt rather than the Arab-Peninsula, anyway). Otherwise Arabs would not have become famous for horse-breeding, as a reliable close-combat camel-unit would have them covered with some added benefit (scaring horses and making deserts a viable way of retreat (+easier to cross for hitting your enemy from behind); thus making them most potent in certain areas only; admittedly, famed arab horse-breeding (the very word [for] "race" may be of direct arab origin, meaning as much as "lineage", if I recall correctly) may still have become a beloved past-time for overbundandly rich sheikhs (same with breeding falcons), but it would have taken away a huge chunk of the incentive in the mean time, and the very possibility thereof for those who still called the desert their home)

All in all: if camels in this game were historically accurate (even just tentatively so) they would have to be the Saracens-/Berbs trash-cavalry unit (bonus damage against buildings (+civilians) but very susceptible to arrows from towers; a very distinct raiding- and early-rush unit) and their first scout, rather than an often questionable hybrid of weak and strong cav... this way their way of figthing would be portrayed more faithfully... + bonus-damage in deserts and wastelands would probably be too much to ask for, I suppose...

PS: one of the many ways to balance the already existing EA would probably be about higher damage/worse accuracy (like the Arambai; but slower and tanky); it's main counter should be siege, archers and gunpowder, rather than the traditional anti-cav. threats (including pikes! - maybe even give it a "war elephant +x" buff (see cataphract) and flat out drop some of the other many, many armor-classes, to make that happen; or rather have some bonus damage against spearman, maybe?)... to give it a unique niche. That would be a unit that was interesting to use and interesting to play against! - balance HP, armor, speed and cost around that purpose and it should be fine! And it would finally give it the meat-shield use that would complete the indian roster... An anti-melee elephant w/o much of a siege-function. Give that latter purpose to some other unit; like the camel-line...