Talk:Torsion Engines/@comment-24444169-20170630102459/@comment-2.247.250.90-20171118132159

" also I think it is far more plausible for Ethiopians to learn the secrets of "torsion engines" from say nearby Arabs or something than for Aztecs to have catapults."

Logic -- this ain't how it works...

If the Ethiopians could learn "Torsion engines" - the technology - from Arabs, those (Saracens) would have to have that technology available in the first place; or they would have to out-do their teachers in no-time (one is obviously not the case, the other is plainly ridiculous). It would make more sense that the New World  civs could learn how to breed + utilize horse-units (something that actually was implemented into the campaign), than... this! - in fact, it takes much, much less cultural advances to learn one of those things, than the other.

If all you actually wanted to say was, that historical accuracy wasn't to be expected, and that any kind of inaccuracy, no matter how big or small (or massed up, by piling those onto one another), was "=<" a "wash", then: cool! - point being taken! (I am not that guy above, just saying!)

If however you meant to imply, that Milo was being irrational while you were countering with "sound logic", then we have a wonderful case of Dunning Kruger effect on your part...

All in all, I'd argue, that Milo, no matter where "he is coming from" (notorious anti SJW?), has a point; one's gotta flat out INVENT some civilization's strengths (-> ethiopians, malians), to make them viable, which in turn begs the question, why they should be in the game in the first place, if they were that inferior during that time? ... There is some odor of political-agenda about all of this, that smells really, really bad (oblitterating the immersion of the game); it's like "fan service" in mangas, purposefully ruining the experience, just so you can sell more copies to some pathetic suckers, who want to have everything their way; in one, anti-SJW catch-phrase: "we wuz kangz!"

btw.: if you give "torsion engines/machines" (the general line of units/machines; which does not include rams, btw.) as well as Trebuchets to one people that didn't have them (Ethiopians), and another that didn't have them (Aztecs), it's a non starter to argue, that the other having them in a basic sort of way, justifies the other having them + excelling in their usage. It's like arguing that "1 = 1 + 1"; it's sophistry -- at best!

PS: Aztecs, other than those african civs (Berbers and Portuguese obviously being the exception; the former more so than the latter...), are actually relevant to the setting of this game in it's original intention; as europeans and those new world civs actually did clash at the end of the medieval ages (=theme of the game). I'd cut the developers some slack for that one, to make those civs viable, as the only real advantage they actually did have, could not be replicated in the game: absurdely greater numbers than the handful of advanturers (conquistadores) they had to face. - and they didn't think about adding slingers, from the get go, to all of the new world civs...

I do not hoever cut anyone any slag for shoehorning some ridiculous contribution into the franchise (or coming up with non thought-out excuses for that, from the wishful-thinking variety (-> from the line of sophistic arguments), whilst patting themselves on the back for their nonsense), because it makes some delusional people (a loud minority) feel better and included. It is an insult to many players, and an insult to historical accuracy, far far and beyond "giving trebs/catapults to aztecs" (after giving them to literally every other civ in the game as well, despite how historically inaccurate that is in the first place)...

PPS: if only I had an option to flat out exclude (!) certain civs from custom games, I wouldn't give an eff [about], what phony little phantasy (!) some small number of players wanted to have implemented into this game... I would give as little or as much about them living in their little phantasy world, as I would give about barbarian hordes running around in loincloths in some unknown land, far far away... nothing against Berbers being included, though; those were actually relevant during that time!