Talk:Mangudai/@comment-27291286-20151207042822

Mungudai no longer have bonus vs. manogonel. That's huge. They can still outmicro them if you've got good control (I don't), the same as a cavalry archer, but it's no longer a reliable counter. Scorpions will now be good against them too.

On the mungudai vs. topic below, I think you're both a little off the mark. Mungudai categorically eradicate anything that doesn't have 8+ pierce armor, or range. That includes halbardiers (also, Saracens don't get halbardiers), woad raiders, imperial camels, samurais, kamayuks, and condotierros. They are however countered by skirmishers, which pretty much every civ has, and standard archer units can do okay, especially buffed up ones like briton or mayan. Eagle warriors will take them down, as will huskarls. Especially huskarls. Try microing your mungudai when your opponent is streaming huskarls directly into your base.

It sort of feels like you guys are playing the game in your heads rather than seeing what works, assuming favourable conditions and whatnot that aren't realistic.